Farnborough International, be fair to your public.

[Deleted]

Hi,
I do agree with you on most of what you say as it comes from an aviation enthusiast addressing a group of likeminded aviation enthusiasts, however Farnborough is basically a shop window for the aviation world to show off their latest wares to the people who are going to buy these products, at the end of this week of spending the doors are then thrown open to the general public for a full blown airshow with a bit of everything for everyone. To these people one airliner looks like another, unless of course its Concorde or the 380, the 787 for example,would of seemed to the general public anyway, like another run of the mill holiday airliner. What FIA do is appese the general joe public with things that will excite them, Spitfires, ME109s etc. (incidentlly these are currently bashing the cicuit which is my house ;D) The companies that flew during the week are not going to sell any aircraft, time is money etc etc, we should of course congratulate Airbus for sticking it out till the end.

[Deleted]

I think I'll wait to see whats flying this weekend but I agree in principle. I think you could accomodate both public and enthusiast. Lets face it the enthusiast is what makes the show. It would not hurt to have maybe one day with some of the stars of the show in the trade week and the other day more crowd pleasers and favourites. but I do understand the need for some of the big companies to continue flight testing programmes and they should be aplauded for bringing something like the 787 at all as its unusual to have a test flight aircraft. Well, unusual in latter day farnboroughs!

we shouldnt forget that we are lucky to still have the show here, but I do think a few of the Not permitted companies could be more engaging with the public.

I also wonder if this show is differently set up to Paris.

[Buster the Bear]

Anyone prepared to pay to watch the show on Sat or Sun needs medical help! The fee being charged for what is on offer is yet another example of 'Rip Off Britain'! Rant over!

[Deleted]

I believe the show commitee do try to persuade companies to keep aircraft for the weekend (certainly at one time they offered a 'discount' on exhibition fees if an aircraft stayed for the weekend). But if a company decide to withdraw an aircraft, there's not much can be done. FI want as many companies as possible to take part - they can't ban companies who send aircraft home after the trade days!!

[Buster the Bear]

we shouldnt forget that we are lucky to still have the show here, but I do think a few of the Not permitted companies could be more engaging with the public.

SUPERB!

[Deleted]

oh dear! If only I'd done that on purpose!

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2010 22:14:22 GMT 1 Buster the Bear said:

Anyone prepared to pay to watch the show on Sat or Sun needs medical help! The fee being charged for what is on offer is yet another example of 'Rip Off Britain'! Rant over!

There were 90,000 people 2 years ago that needed medical help!!!

you get a whole days entertainment fror £25 cpmpared to

A football match
www.footballseatfinder.co.uk/internationals/england/england-v-hungary-/

or a 90 min film at £12.95 per adult for Toy Story 3D

[Deleted]

I agree with Peter. I understand that many aircraft are needed elsewhere - testing etc, but this has always been the case, so nothing new there and in the big scheme of things are 3 or 4 days really going to make a big difference?
IMHO the show should be headed by a complete aviation man (or woman). I think Farnborough is different and does attract the real enthusiast in large number's as opposed to those who may not know the difference between let's say a Tristar and a DC10. The local catchment area has really since the show began been full of people who work in the industry, RAE / NGTE / Blackbushe / Odiham / Lasham / Heathrow / BAE / TAG and their families. If you were born around here or lived in the area for a few years you would easily get hooked on aviation. Farnborough is special on so many level's to aviation itself.
Of course we are in 2010, things have changed. There are probably too many "trade show's" around the world and Farnborough has to compete with Berlin and other show's that weren't really a threat year's ago. The rules and regulations and cost of taking part in a UK air displays are frightening, although probably necessary. RIAT at the start of Farnborough week probably doesn't help Farnborough itself. think if the public weekend was at the start, followed by 5 trade days and then RIAT. This won't ever happen I know.
I am hoping that it is down to cost constraints why so many aircraft are heading home before doing their bit for joe public - credit crunch and all that and that the trend will cease in future Farnborough's. I hope I am proved to be right.
Peter please give that guy a few pointer's. It wasn't so long ago that the manufacturer's wanted to show off their latest to all of us lot on the public day's too. Like I said on another thread we are all paying for these aircraft through taxes or paying to travel by air. On one level surely we have a right to see these display to - we are paying for them!

Jonnie

[Deleted]

Hi There,

I thought I'd add a positive spin on the airshow.

Yes I agree that it is a shame several trade aircraft leave before the public weekend but it has been like that for several shows now.

If you look at the trade star aircraft that departed the F22, A400M & Sukhoi SSJ all appeared in the flying at Fairford.
The fact they were here for a limited period was well advertised so I feel the keen enthusiast probably would have gone to Fairford rather than here.

As for the 787 with the problems Boeing have had I think we were lucky they brought it at all.

A lot of the other early leavers were biz jet types, though the 777 & A330 was a bit disappionting.

As for making exhibitors attend all 7 days feel it is is better to have something attend for a short time rather than not at all.

As an enthusiast I feel lucky to live in farnborough and see all the show. This year was a bumper year for new types for me B787, A400M, AN158, SSJ 100, JF17, Air tractor, Technam MMA ,B737 Wedgetail the last 4 were to my knowledge still present at the weekend.

2 work collegues went on Sunday they are not aircraft enthusiasts and said that had a brilliant day out.

I tend to see FI as 2 shows Mon-Thur trade & Fri-Sun a Biggin Hill type airshow.

If we were discussing a Biggin Hill with the A380, F18, F16, Vulcan, B52, Spit & ME109 (buchon) which I thought was a public day highlight , I think it would have been regarded as a classic.

I think Farnboroughs history makes it a hard reputation to live up too and unfortunately times have changed since its heyday.

So to sum up yep theres always room to improve but all in all don't think its a bad show!

[Admin (Annette Andria)]

Think the same debate is going on on another forum but we seem to have drifted off the real answer
Farnborough Airshow is wrongly billed its not an air show as such but a trade Show with a few hours
of Demonstration flying tacked on and for two days it becomes a general public airshow the likes
of which can be seen at many airfields and joe \jane Public love it Saturday proved that to me.
From the spotters point of view over the years things have got bad with very few new types to see
this year we got to see some even though they were not at public days but spotters saw them
all week goodness knows we gave them enough information to get here log them.
So let me say Saturday was a very busy day i caught the service bus up no problem
and in just in time for the 318 landing from there you see what was wrong for us not the visitor
unlees been before the static park in cases lack of one very poor from last few shows but the
casual visitor was more than happy crowds of people everywhere and Few moans.
Exhibition was poor and even more was empty but again as a regular it served my purpose
i spent loads of time meeting and chatting to some great people and we possibly will
be having them join us one already has but then the public view well look at the faces of the
many children bags of posters books and more , happy kids Happy parents . i sat in one
area for the display one that you can see at Biggin , Riat Southend etc etc Vintage and veteran
Flying mixed with A few Fast Jets A380 VULCAN REDS seen them many times bu joe public
was Happy warm applause all round.
To Sum it up Farnborough shows will never be the same we all now that but the public still attend
they moan a little about prices but the vast majority of non spotters went home happy.
All the roads and spaces roundabouts were full of people. People in the town were talking
airshow few moans about Traffic and noise but most said ITS ONLY EVERY 2 YEARS we can
put up with it and its great to watch so there you are

SPOTTERS NOT HAPPY Yes you can understand that.

JOE\JANE PUBLIC MAJORITY HAPPY

Will they be there 2012 you bet your life they will be

thats my view

[Deleted]

Well said Tony, I was lucky to be inside Monday Wednesday and friday, but on Saturday I took two of my Boys (11 & 13) they really loved it, and to me that is what counts.

We get the excitement of the build up then the trade week, the familys get a great airshow with plenty to offer on the door stop

Also lets not forget another couple of major factors

1: Our armed forces and US Forces are stretched to the Limit, with few aircraft to spare, Id rather an AH64 was flying in afghanastan helping our Boys rather then strutting its stuff so we can take pictures of it

2: The World ( Not just us ) has suffered huge economic down turn.

Roll on 2012 I cant wait, I would rather be there than the bleeding Olympics!!!! ( unless someone has spare tickets to the Womens Beach Volley ball that is!)

Im sure not everyone will agree with what I have put but that is only my view

Regards Matt

[Deleted]

Just one other thing,
I think flexibility was a problem this year. I went both public days and Saturday was definitely quieter. The problem is, on Sunday we lost the Vulcan and even many non enthusiasts come to see that. To me that meant the end of the show was a bit of a damp squib. I dont see why a couple of fly-bys couldnt have been arranged by something unusual or even something from the trade days added in. Also the Spartan had gone, meaning there were two less aircraft on Sunday so the attendees were effectively short changed. Apart from that, I love the whole thing and now so does my 2 year old boy, so I'm happy for another year!

[Deleted]

In years gone by, when I was of school age, the dedicated public days were the only days my father & I could get there. As I remember, there was a good mix of 'trade day' aircraft and displays undoubtedly put on specificly for the general public. As an example, in the 1972 show (in fact my visit there was a birthday treat, as my visit was on my birthday) I can remember seeing the Tristar (N305EA with the BEA tail) HS 748 & Concorde did a fly-by (that's two more airliners than I saw display this year on the Saturday) I also seem to remember a Dassault Falcon (think it might have been a Falcon 20) & HS125 in the flying display. Undoubtedly these were from the trade days. I also remember 'set piece' displays put on for the public by the armed services, of course the Red Arrows were there (Folland Gnats in those days) & the BOBMF were there with their Spit, Lanc & Hurricane, not forgetting the conclusion of an air race (Farnborough was the finishing line) So why can't there be a mix of the 'tried & trusted' public favourites & some of the new 'trade stuff' nowadays? I think it would make for an even better show. I do hope that in the intervening period between the show just ended and the next one the organisers will actively encourage the exhibiters to leave their aircraft over the public days as well as the trade ones.

[Buster the Bear]

To be eligible once upon a time, there had to be a link to Britain, thus the FK28 participated as example (RR engines).

Farnborough now has had to move on otherwise the exhibition could be held in a marquee, such is the state of manufacturing aeroplanes in UKplc. We make 'bits'.

The 'Air show' is little more than a money spinner' for the organisers. Folk flock to see the planes flying, most will not have a clue that very few demonstrations were from trade exhibitors.

If that is the way the organisers 'spin' the £25, then fine.

My history is Farnborough from 1970 (rained all day) until 1980. Returned trade wise since then.

Farnborough was a method to show upward of 100,000 each weekend day, their latest products. I will remember the Viggen demonstration forever and the Dash-7 (so quiet)

Anyway, a small handful of the exhibitors did partake, apart from those few, the rest were regulars at flying displays all over the UK circuit.

My cynical mind tells me that the Saturday and Sunday are purely run as a money making exercise.

Anyway, I am a bear, so what do I know!

[Deleted]

Peter,
You and I are of an age where we can remember airshows at Farnborough going back to the 60's and possibly a little earlier! I don't remember any of the aircraft in those days leaving the show half way through the week do you? Yes, I hear the arguements about testing, military commitments etc, but if these are so pressing why are the aircraft released to attend in the first place, my guess is sales. Understandable of course, so Joe public is not likely to buy a new Airbus but he might probably like to see one. Would it therefore be unrealistic to get the manufacturers to sign an agreement that if they participate its for the full week not just days of their choice. Most young people only attend the public days and these youngsters are the future of aviation, our next generation of engineers deserve to be able to see the products that the industry produces now, not just a few of them. JSM

[Deleted]

Dear Peter Brown

can you please organise another Blackbushe airshow as I missed your other one,

Thanks very much

Paul
;D

[Admin (Annette Andria)]

Well that obvious we have Floodlit F1 Racing so A night air display please starting 2200 to 0400

blackbushe

the Wingwalkers just landind as vulcan ran in , the Pelicans display team and the non stop
moans after the show it was Fun . We were parked on the grass in Black Austen 1100
happy days never to be repeated.i fear

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2010 15:50:25 GMT 1 @peterbrown said:

Change of subject.. My note on this thread from 9.53 yesterday queried your ideas as to what would make Farnborough International retain the leadership for the most "unique" air show, something to keep Farnborough special and not just another show? I put some thoughts down, just wonder what you guys would like to see in 2012 so as Farnborugh remains the best for trade and Joe Public? Just for fun, of course!!

PB

I have thought for a long time that the public would like to see the airliners they fly abroad on being put through their paces. I question why the public who attended Fairford got to see the Sukhoi superjet & A400M display but not those who came to Farnborough the following weekend. As the Fairford show had ended, why not base an F22 Raptor at Farnborough for the show? Isn't it about time one graced the tarmac here along with the F16 & 18? Yes, I think there should be a good mix of the old public favourites & the new stuff that was exhibited earlier in the week for the last two days of the Farnborough show, it worked in the 1970s & 1980s, I believe it would still work now.

[Admin (Annette Andria)]

Joe public in the main is happy with what he gets allright add a few moans maybe. And you are
right about people wanting to see airliners , The BAW simulater\tour was very busy as were the
A380 Tours there was A320 B777 Here but seems they were needed elsewhere ,
The STATIC Parks were dismal compared to past years and how many more times do we
need to see b52 why not a stealth or Tanker with pups one Yank one brit Fly the Flag
but thats for Fairford so we keep being told . where do we go i dont know i would
like to think Show people take notice of the public but i have a feeling they dont

[Deleted]

Peter, I'll volunteer!
I also have an idea for 2012. A parade of airliners for each country that wins a gold medal at the Olympics. Now I actually believe it could be done if someone tried. There should be more of a spin on it though. How about a Red Bull airliner race?

[Deleted]

Jul 29, 2010 23:50:44 GMT 1 @paulv said:

I also have an idea for 2012. A parade of airliners for each country that wins a gold medal at the Olympics. Now I actually believe it could be done if someone tried.

Could be quite hard that one as the Olympics starts the day after Farnborough finishes!!! unless of course you have access to a crystal ball and if you do lets do the lottery for the next couple of months and we can organise our own airshow ;D

[Deleted]

[/quote]
I have thought for a long time that the public would like to see the airliners they fly abroad on being put through their paces. I question why the public who attended Fairford got to see the Sukhoi superjet & A400M display but not those who came to Farnborough the following weekend. As the Fairford show had ended, why not base an F22 Raptor at Farnborough for the show? Isn't it about time one graced the tarmac here along with the F16 & 18? Yes, I think there should be a good mix of the old public favourites & the new stuff that was exhibited earlier in the week for the last two days of the Farnborough show, it worked in the 1970s & 1980s, I believe it would still work now.[/quote]

The A400M and Sukhoi would have already booked time away from their testing program to attend the trade days at Farnborough, as luck had it while they are in the country a huge airshow was going on just up the road at Fairford and with no flying to be done at Farn for the weekend they opted to go there, if Fairford and Farnborough public days were held on the same weekend perhaps the 2 could have combined flying, ie the participants at both could perform at each show

[Deleted]

Hi Peterb,

This perhaps this should be a new thread, but as you are involved with Blackbushe I have some memories.

Can you correct me but I have a memory of a BB airshow perhaps 1966ish miserable weather being in a push chair but I recall a USAF Globemaster on the the ground surely I'm wrong!!!

I do remember in later years the Red Pelicans, a hunter doing very low beat ups and of course the BA 747 fly bys which I think you are refering to!!

Not too mention drag racing & Bob Dylan!

Also my first paid job was working on Dougie Arnolds IAF Spitfires in '79.

Cheers

[Admin (Annette Andria)]

Gents i dont mind where you chat if you want to carry on here ok if not use the
blackbushe forum by all means lets have all the memorys frankly its all we have left


Best Regards

T

[Deleted]

Foolonthehill,
Interesting - I too worked for Doug Arnold for many years both at Blackbushe and Fairoaks and incidentally remember the Globemaster at the airfield but that was many years earlier. You were very lucky and must have been one of very few to actually see those Spitfires let alone work on them as they were, as I recall, only shown to the favoured few and there were very few such persons! JSM

[Deleted]

I photographed just one of Duggie's Spits at Blackbushe. I suppose you could mention that other Spitfire 'production line' at Roundwood farm (it's very close to Popham) in the 1980s-90s, but where would you put it, include it in the Popham board or 'All other airfields'? You used to get a 'beat-up' of Popham from them every so often.